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Socrates Café: Should Race Matter?
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  Each month The Socrates Cafe explores a different philosophical question, both on the air and on the web. This month we look at the question "Should race matter?" Is being the majority race still an advantage, or not? Do people of one race get special treatment or attention? If so, is that needed or right? Be part of the conversation. Guest
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I grew up in a very racially diverse and at times racially tense neighborhood just outside Newark, New Jersey. My parents were on their honeymoon in Hawaii during the 1967 Newark race-riots, back home my uncle Bob stood outside his home with a gun protecting his house, while family lore talks of a second-uncle who talked about the only excitement he got out of being a Newark cop was “being able to beat the heck out of blacks in the neighborhood”.
During my teenage years in the mid-1980s, the high school I went to was very diverse, my two best friends were Hispanic (one Dominican, one Cuban), and I mingled in crowds of whites, blacks and many south-east Asians. As a school, we all got along for the most part, yet in the lunchroom you would see the various races gravitating toward each other to spend the hour. Outside of school was a different story. Whites and Blacks and Hispanics from bordering towns and neighborhoods fought, many times just because of racial differences. I had friends who were attacked just because of their race, and in kind attacked back for the same reason.
I don’t see my experience as unique for its time and its urban setting. I do feel though, that racial tensions are played out much differently in New Hampshire than in the explosive ways it did in late 1960s and mid-1980’s Newark, New Jersey. I’d like to think that in 2008, we don’t judge by race anymore but I still think it’s here especially in the quietness of small likeminded circles. Should race matter? I think for many you get a different answer for that question than “Does race still matter?”
Lastly I really see many discussions of race devolve to a White vs. Black conversation… Look now at the political discussions of Obama vs. Hillary. I worry that many times Hispanics, Asians and “Others” are left out. The issue of race wasn’t discussed as much with Bill Richardson, maybe it would have been if he went further in the race… who knows? I do wonder when asking the question “Should race matter”, does it matter differently to Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and or “Others” ?
Race only devolves into a White vs. Black perspective when you start from a White point of view. Start from a Puerto Rican perspective, a Hmong perspective, a Navajo perspective and you will have a very different conversation.
VBC
Your comment: "Race only devolves into a White vs. Black perspective when you start from a White point of view." offends me. You are infering white people are evil. Well, let me give you my WHITE perspective:
- I don't get an affirmative action preference/quota. Where I work they bend over backwards to promote non-whites. Non-performance is tolerated among minority employees.
- When I was in college I did not get free tutoring unlike the minority students. Even with free tutoring, minorities were pushed through when they could not pass tests. They were held to a lesser standard. Also, us WHITES did not have a Lester Maddox Center but the blacks had a Malcom X Center. And, us WHITES did not have an all-WHITE dormitory, but the black students did.
- Us WHITES do not have a "Diversity Visa" program. Being white does not help getting into the US, however, you can be a black Solmalian who can't read at the 3rd grade level in your country, but since you are black, "come on down". Let us put you in public housing and every other handout program.
the problem with your question is the "should" part
race defanatly SEEMS to matter....."should i be a millionare" id say yes "should i be killed " id say no
should race matter........what do u mean by "matter"?
Thanks for your comments and good points.
We use the "should" in the question because we don't want to sway the listener or person posting their comments in any direction. It puts the onus on them to completely answer the question they way they want. "Should" also allows us to broaden the question beyond "yes" or "no". By asking “Should race matter” over "Does race matter", we not only ask if race exists in our dialogue but if it should exist too.
When we say "matter" we again are allowing ourselves to explore questions of race in many different directions... Is it still needed in the national dialogue and does it make an impact? Do we still need to include race in our conversation? Are we still swayed by race and if we are or if we're not is that important?
Since we all evolved from a common ancestor I would argue that we are all the same race. To divide the population into so-called races because of a particular physical trait is both arbitrary and counter-productive. Why not use hair color instead of skin color. Then we would have a blonde race, a brown race, a red race., etc. Or choose eye color. Then we would have brown, blue, and green races. It is counter-productive because it divides us from each other. We share a common humanity. There is only one race, -the Human Race.
EARTH/HUMANS
...a meadow
seeded with
a variety of life
red
yellow
brown
white
blooming in turn...
as one wanes
another expands
some cross-pollinating
creating new varieties
all closing
at the end
of Earth's cycle..
paul corrao, m.d. The sacred patch-work quilt of races is one of the glories of the human race. Imagine how boring life would be (and is, in some areas) if there were only one race. We would lose the beauty of different languages, cultures, music, literature, art, cuisines, etc. The problem isn't races, it is racism, and that in turn is due to ignorance, misunderstanding, and failure to live up to our religious and national ideals. The solution is greater contacts among various races, cultural exchanges, education, openness, tolerance, and the constant pursuit of our most cherished ideals as Americans. Sincerely, Paul Corrao, M.D., Lewiston, Maine
One of my early jobs was teaching middle school special ed. at a predominantly African-American school in a suburb of Chicago (in an area with a less-than-stellar record on race relations). The job was tough, mostly because I was not trained in special ed; when I wasn't exhausted from the daily routine I was desperately teaching myself special ed.
Luckily I had a fellow sped teacher, an African-American woman, who was super-helpful and generous with suggestions. "The more concrete the better," she said. "If a kid isn't working in class, pull him out of lunch and have him work while he's eating." So I took her advice with one of my more fidgety kids. Big mistake - he was even more resistant. So I took him to the dean, an African-American gentleman, who took me aside and essentially said the problem with my new, hard-edged discipline was that many kids would resist on account of my being a white man - even though the same methods worked for my helpful colleague across the hall! He wasn't saying it to be cruel or unfair, he was telling it the way it was - as much as any of us wanted it to be otherwise, race affected the dynamic in my classroom.
Race should not matter -- nor should gender -- in determining the most qualified candidate for an office. Life experience, skills, leadership, and a myriad of other factors are appropriate discriminators. Race and gender should matter only as mirrors to reflect our own perspectives: if they do, indeed, matter, we individually have work to do.
Race does matter - even though we would like to think it doesn't...that we've "moved beyond that". The reality is, it still does matter - it shapes our perceptions, and the way we're treated in the broader society. So let's embrace this question and talk about it honestly. The more light we can shed on this one, the better!
Race is a myth. Science has proven time and again that the physically expressed differences between people is no indicator of inner strenghts or weaknesses of one group in comparison to the other. In a society where science is considered to be the final word, people in this society continue to hold to the myth of racial superiority. The only reason for people to continue to hold to the myth is because they are insecure within themselves.
As to whether one group still gets special priviledges over the other, just look at our society. Go into the prisons. Why are people of the minority population the majority in prisons? Why is it so difficult for minorities to get promoted in their jobs? Why are minority students continually taunted in colleges? If minorities are truly inferior, why do those of the majority group need to create these barriers?
Question:
Is being the majority race still an advantage, or not? Do people of one race get special treatment or attention? If so, is that needed or right? Be part of the conversation.
Answer:
America is all screwed up and it is not getting better !!!!!
To fix it, everyone needs to be truly equal (race, gender, religion, nationality, etc.) as our Constitution says. People will always have their own predacious for or against anything. I do believe the media maintains these ongoing conflicts just to keep things stirred up.
Just think clearly a minute. The media has created all of these divisions and continues the friction (no matter the topic). I think it is VERY WRONG to even think of anyone as being a “majority” or “minority”. These terms are needed for counting votes but not dividing people. To bring people together, the complete opposite is needed.
No race, gender, religion, nationality, etc. should have special privileges. All privileges should be 100% earned. The best should rise to the top and not “handicapped” in any way.
Born Jewish post wwII in Northern New York, race mattered.
Marrying in 1975 to a non-Jewish person, race mattered to BOTH families.
Adopting a child of Bangledeshi/Austrian parentage didn't matter as much until she became an adult and has been asked, with a sniff, where ARE you from?
Race matters when you're born in Calcutta, when you are dark skinned, when your white parents can't protect you from words. When you have to learn to say, "yes sir" when you're stopped for no reason. When you're walking down the street and someone calls you a derogatory name. Race matters even when they don't know what race you are. You're hated for your skin color.
Our family blended for the right reasons, because we felt race didn't matter. Society has proven us wrong. But we are still trying to educate society to make things easier for the next generation.
The problem I have with the premise of this topic is the implicit idea that we can somehow objectively determine another person's racial makeup in order to make our judgment about him. Of course, without access to genetic information, all we can really do is make some shorthand suppositions based on the shade of a person's skin or the sound of someone's name. I'm not saying that this does not happen--indeed it does all the time--but I would argue that we cannot talk about whether or not race matters without strict criteria for establishing what race is.
paul corrao, m.d. I suppose I had more in mind "culture" than race, and I certainly concede the point that "race" is a very imprecise, unscientific term, and subject to grave misunderstanding and misuse. In clarification, may I say only that the sometimes obvious but superficial differences among humans must never be allowed to obscure or trump in politics, economics or other areas of life, our common shared humanity, which overrides "race" or any other consideration. Paul Corrao
The fact that it is even being discussed proves that it matters even if it shouldn't. By all rights, Barack Obama should just be a man running for the Presidency of the U.S. Instead, he is referenced as a Black man running for the position. And this is because, we are aware (even though we don't always want to admit it)that minorities in general, don't always get a fair turn at bat. Obama's run is a glaring example of the vacuum of minorities in prominent positions and places.
In a perfect world race would not matter. Since it is not a perfect world it does. In this country race has mattered since our founding. Whites (men) have always been advantaged and continue to be so to this day. As the advantage gaps are closed for other races & (women), the advantaged group have complained vociferously to regain any and all advantages they think they lost. (reversing affirmative action for example)
Until our society is truly "color blind" race will matter. It is the one characteristics we have that will always define people because it can not be changed or hidden. (Writer is white)
When you say "Whites (men) have always been advantaged and continue to be so to this day." I respond that I have only been alive since 1959 and since I have been alive laws have been passed codifying discrimination against white males. I was not alive cracking a whip in the early 1800s. I don't remember what it was like when my group had the upper hand.
Jack you seem so angry. I would implore you to do a Google search comparing White males vs. men of color and compare income.It has been approximately 40 years since civil rights legislation was passed. Since you perceive reverse discrimination started. Well - 40 years later,the median income for a 65 year old White man is $22,000/yr compared to $14,000 for a man who is African American.
Back to the main theme - Should Color Matter - I say yes. If one looks at the colors as representative of different races, I say yes. We love it when we have foods, music and art from different cultures (race is part of one's culture). I say let us strongly embrace different people of different races. Let us stop this mad, fruitless effort to assimilate everyone who is different. Instead of being afraid let us enjoy different races.
VBC
VBC
Are you saying because I seem angry that all my points have no validity and that I should just do a Google search and get over it? If the playing field is slanted toward one group with affirmative action, special programs, special hiring and contracting programs and goals based soley on race and that group still does not progress; it's not the fault of the group who doesn't get the preferences. Maybe there is something here other than white oppresion. What's wrong with hiring the most qualified person or admitting the most qualified to medical school?
I think that the only time race ought to matter is when we take a moment to appreciate our own background and heritage and those of others. It sounds hokey, but we're all ingrediants in the American melting pot.
My newborn niece is half-Japanese half-Jewish, and I'm really glad that she was born into a country where the barriers between the races crumble a bit more each year.
And not to inject politics into this, but I selfishly enjoy the thought that the first election she lives through could result in the first mixed-race president. In a perfect world, the president is the role-model-in-chief as much as he or she is the commander-in-chief, and I would love my niece (and my own future children for that matter) to see the ultimate proof that race matters less than it ever has.
Years ago when the world was less connected, small minded (small world minded) people knew of black and white and maybe Chinese. Those were "races". Today we know of so many different places and countries and homes of others within the human race, that it is better described as "cultures" to me. When i was a little girl my Dad was a policeman...during the "racial riots" in Hartford CT. He was also a first generation child of Italian immigrants. Those riots were between black and White...hence my thinking that it used to define something it no longer defines. Dad taught me to love all people. I have fond memories of going to black homes and having soul food...ham hocks and black eyed peas and some other thing I don't know what it was called but it was like corn bread. I remember playing with black girls and Puerto Rican girls, italian girls, kids with accepts and who could speak another language when I couldn't. I enjoyed playing with all kinds of kids and only remember thinking who they were and that they were my friends...it wasn't until i was in 2nd grade that I knew what bigotry or racial hatred was, when someone was harassing my friend. i did not understand why, but i went home and asked. Dad said that some people hated people because of their skin color and for no other reason. But he told me to remember that all people have hearts and feelings. That day really traumatized me.
Race only matters to those who choose to make it matter. Using race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, monetary status, etc. are ways that are used to separate people from each other. Until we figure out that we live in this world together, are all one and there is no Us versus Them, these issues that separate us through fear and misunderstanding will not go away.
Amen! Jesus prayed that we would bcome one with Him as He and his Father are One. It has been my observation that race only matters when it can be used as an advantage to the person contending that it matters. Admittedly, too often there is an inherent - although wrong - advantage to be in the majority race but it would be unfair (i.e., racist) to categorize any individual based on his being a member of a particualr group that might allow their race to give them an advantage. I think racism can be defined in many ways but I think the inability to see a tree because of ones perception of the forest is an apt definition of racism - at least as it applies to an innocent "tree."
we need to make recompence for wrongs done.
should it matter in a GOOD way :YES!
shoud it matter in a BAD way:No!
VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!
Anyone whos mad at afirmative action shoulld NOT BE: think of our nation as ONE PERSON who has behaved badly or think of it as ONE MIND ....we have seen the error of our ways and are STILL in the process of changing
I do not believe it should matter however as a caucasian male, I find that it is hard to see many Blacks in the USA as being the same as me when it appears that they go to extremes to set themselves apart with their music, dress, and actions. They try so hard to stand out it becomes the dividing factor rather than the color of their skin. I have heard comments that I want them to act white, but it seems to me that if they don't want to be seen differently, then they should not go to such great lengths to seem different.
Here's a racial resentment index from the pages of Newsweek:
The Racial Resentment Index is an additive index based on response to 10 specific questions measuring whites’ attitudes towards African-Americans, social welfare programs, and the civil rights movement. The following questions were used to create the index:
Disapprove of racial preferences (Q17=2)
Less qualified people hired often (Q18=1)
Whites lose out (Q19=2,4)
Gone too far pushing rights (Q20a=1)
Poor too dependent on government (Q20b=1)
Blacks responsible for own condition (Q21=2)
Disapprove of interracial marriage (Q22=2)
Few things in common with blacks (Q23=3)
Would mind if black person moved close (Q24=1)
Would be upset if daughter dated black (Q25=2,3)
The range of possible scores is 0-10.
Racial Resentment Index Score
High (5-10)
Medium (3-4)
Low (0-2)
For full disclosure I score "high" since I answer yes to Q17,Q18,Q19. I'm up in the air over Q20b but answer no to the other criterion.
Newsweek, a so-called mainstream media magazine says if you are not for preferences or you don't turn your head when you see a minority promoted over a more qualified candidate or see reverse discrimination hurt a white person you are full of "racial resentment". Please!